Mastering Sales Conversations: Building Trust and Connection with Nicole Cramer

Speaker: 00:00:00

Catharine O'Leary: Hey everyone, welcome back to kickstart the conversation. I am your host, Catharine O'Leary and I have Nicole Cramer with me today. Nicole is a sales conversation coach, a keynote speaker, corporate sales trainer, and an exactly what to say certified Guide, which I think we all need at times, cool teaches her clients to master sales conversations using human connection, sales, psychology, and magic phrases, I cannot wait to get into what the magic phrases are. So after achieving the title of number one salesperson in the country at her fortune 500 company, Nicole discovered that she really did enjoy coaching others to be top performers and mastering the power of influence in their conversations. Nicole has worked with clients in industries including health and wellness, finance, real estate and entertainment and Nikolas clients learn to master there. Here we go their authentic sales process and maximize your sales wins by bringing the art of conversation and connection to a whole new level. And Nicole and I are totally on the same page here because we're all about connection. We're all about, you know, having conversations asking a ton of questions, and helping you know, our, our clients, and then those who were aren't our clients make decisions. So Nicole, welcome to kickstart the conversation.

Nicole Cramer: 00:01:21

Thank you for having me, Catharine. I'm excited to be here to talk a little bit more

Nicole Cramer: 00:01:25

Catharine O'Leary: about you know, who you work with, and, and you know, what you help people with? Because it's something that we all need to do, and a lot of us shy away from it. Yeah,

Nicole Cramer: 00:01:36

yeah, I think it's, you know, typically, we have this idea in our mind that salespeople are bad. And so we don't want to be what we consider to be bad. And I mean, it could be as simple as simple as that, right? Because there were so many years and for so long that salespeople had a reputation of being pushy and being all about themselves. And I think a lot of us have had experiences with buying where it didn't feel good. But we've also had experiences with buying where it didn't feel good. And there is such a thing as a professional salesperson. And what I believe that to be, it's really just a professional mind maker upper thinks that's all we're here to do. Right? We're not here to talk somebody into US, per se. We're here to help them realize and recognize what might be the next best step for them. And sometimes that's not us. And you know, I think a lot of people can get caught up in the no versus Yes, but no one yes are actually both good things in a sales conversation. It's the maybe that is going to eat up our time and attention and focus. So what we really want is how can we ultimately get more yeses? Of course, we're business owners, we want to help more people. But really, how can we get more decisions, and be more effective in our sales conversations? And do that in a way that feels authentic to us and feels like we get to show up early in service to the other person.

Nicole Cramer: 00:02:51

Catharine O'Leary: I love that the We are professional mind maker uppers. Is that? Is that a magical phrase? Because that's pretty cool. I like that one.

Nicole Cramer: 00:02:58

Yeah, it's what my it's what federal says a lot. Phil's the author of the book exactly what to say he's my mentor. And that's what he uses as his definition of salespeople. And I love it. And so that's really how I frame it for people now. So

Nicole Cramer: 00:03:12

Catharine O'Leary: are you are you seeing a shift in the way that that sales is being approached? Now, I mean, we're coming out of I mean, we're well past, well, not well past, but we're past COVID People are kind of back into the new reality, whatever that looks like. But I think that we're a little bit more cynical, we're a little bit more careful of just jumping into, you know, here's my credit card conversations. We're not necessarily buying into the, you know, scarcity, this is only available for the next 26 seconds, you know, kind of like that, that that whole push mentality that a very aggressive sales techniques, I feel like that's, you know, not doing as well as it had been, and that the, I think that the tide is changing on that.

Nicole Cramer: 00:04:02

For sure. I think we are entering a new paradigm of how people expect to be sold to. And I like to say people don't want to be sold, but they do love to buy, and who do they want to buy from people that they know, like and trust. And I think that that has never been more important than now. Especially with the availability of the internet and people being able to put anything up at anytime they want to put up for sale, which I think is incredible. And I'm grateful that we all can, you know, enter into that arena. But I think people are just willing to use their discernment and make sure that it's the right decision for them. And when we show up as the salesperson who also is about helping them make a decision in service to them, that's where that trust piece starts to right like people buy from people they know like and trust well if they just know unlike you. I bet all of us have a lot of know and likes out there. Right? Those prospects that are just sitting out there watching us they like whatever we put on social media they enjoy. You know what we're putting out there, they get some better Are you from us? Do they trust us yet? And if that's not in place yet, to me, that's probably the biggest shift in the sales process is people really need to feel that trust in order to make a decision.

Nicole Cramer: 00:05:11

Catharine O'Leary: Yeah, I would agree. And so I call it proposing marriage on the first date, you know, putting an ad out there, and then just immediately going into a sales conversation like that's that that feels inauthentic. To me, it feels a little icky to me, which is why I propose, like, you know, having a system in place that asks a lot of questions, you know, like a quiz or, you know, a survey or like some sort of a conversation before you actually get into the, do we even like each other enough to have this conversation about whether or not we wish we should work together? Because, I mean, I find it fascinating that, you know, we will put like real estate agents or lawyers or, you know, other professional services through the wringer before we you know, before we trust them, and then for some online coach, like for for some online businesses, it's almost like, well, of course, it's $100,000, you should pay me that. And, you know, like, there's a little bit of a disconnect, sometimes I think, so. How do we get people to trust us more and still be authentic and not be? Not manipulative? And not, you know, you have to use these trick words, or these trick phrases or whatever? Yeah.

Nicole Cramer: 00:06:23

Well, a couple of things. First of all, you know, how do we get people to trust us, we quit making it about us. And we take the time to show that we really know and understand them. When you can hit the show me that you know Me button, when you can say, I know you I get you, I've been there. I've helped people like you, when you can convey that to people, right? It might not be in saying it, just like I said, I know you I get you. But when you can convey that in your messaging in your conversations, people feel that they feel seen they feel understood. And more than anything in this world, what I think is people want to feel understood. And so earning that trust, it's ironic, because it's like, how do I prove that they can trust me, it's not about us? How do I show them that I care? So that they care about what I know, that can help them?

Nicole Cramer: 00:07:15

Catharine O'Leary: Oh, I love that. How do I show them that I care enough about them to know them? Well enough to be able to say I think I can help you? Yeah.

Nicole Cramer: 00:07:26

Yeah, it's, it's really hard to say, See, I think I can help you and get their buy in if you really don't understand or haven't taken the time, to make them feel understood and seen. And what happens is, if we tell people that we have their solution, they'll tell us why they don't have the problem, or why they don't need it. If we take the time to understand their problem, then they will trust us with the solution. So that trust is built from us saying I'm going to slow this process down. And I'm going to ask questions, and I'm going to stay curious. And I'm going to seek ways to become relatable to you so that you and I actually feel like she gets me, she knows me. And this feels safe for you. And what happens is when we do that, and we slow things down, and we seek to build empathy, we have courage to ask questions that would have otherwise been misplaced, right? When you've asked questions, and you've gathered context, and you've learned about someone else, and what their challenges are, nobody can argue with their words. So if you're asking questions, and they're telling you what their challenges are, it's like, I'm not sitting over here telling you I have your solution. I'm sitting here in a conversation showing you that I care. And you're telling me all the reasons why you need help. And you're realizing it in real time, just like I am. We're discovering this together. And therefore we can decide together. What makes sense for you to move forward with, is it something I can help you with? Do I want to help you with this? I mean, I'm sure all of us have had enough experiences where clients where we realize not again, I know, that's not the kind of person I want to work with, again, you know, weren't a bad person, it's just not who I want to work with. And so we have to learn that sometimes, too. It's not just us, slowing things down and asking questions tactically to, like, strategically, right? manipulate the situation. It's like, No, we're really just having a conversation. We're making this about, I care about you, I want to hear you out. I want to decide if this is something that might make sense for both of us to move forward with and if it doesn't, then I can point you in a direction that would help you right now. Like that's pretty much what this is.

Nicole Cramer: 00:09:45

Catharine O'Leary: Yeah, and like you said, it was like, you know, to help people get to a decision yes or no? Yeah, and not stay in that maybe state because that maybe state isn't comfortable for the business but it's also not comfortable for the for the person that that is going through that decision, right? Like, should I shouldn't die. There's a whole bunch of FOMO. And then now you've got imposter syndrome, and you've got all this other stuff going on. And so let's just like yes or no, like, you know, like, let's, let's, let's figure it out, like, just have the conversation. And it's not like that, that process has to take eight months or anything like that, I think is just an intention. I

Nicole Cramer: 00:10:23

mean, sometimes it does take eight months, sometimes it takes eight days. And that's a whole nother conversation around Well, are you building your pipeline, because if you need one person to make a decision, and that's the biggest factor in you right now, then who's being salesy, who's making it about what they need, instead of making it about what the other person does? So yeah, to your point, no, it doesn't need to take eight months. But there's now buyers there soon buyers and there's later buyers, are you getting yourself into enough conversations and putting yourself in enough places that are putting you in front of buyers who are interested knowing that at any given point, they might be a now buyer, assumed buyer or a later buyer, right? And we don't need to get into the whole complex world of you know, managing relationships and keeping up with conversations. But that's really, that's really what this is, it's how do I show up and service the other person? How do I slow the conversation down so that we both have realizations together of what might be beneficial? Because if it doesn't work for you, then it doesn't work for me and vice versa. So the decision that's going to be made is for the greatest, greatest and highest good for both. Right? And I think to your point that maybe is where people waste a lot of time. And, you know, I'll even say to my clients, I'm like, Well, why don't you just ask, if if they even need support, right? And in whatever way and whatever that that moment brings up? But like, hey, could it be possible that this isn't something that you need support with right now? And if you ask somebody a question like that, they're like, Well, no, I actually can't figure this out on my own, or I haven't been able to do it, or I've been struggling with it for a while. And well, now they're kind of telling you all the reasons why they're identifying. This is something that I think I could see a benefit and getting support with. Right, so nothing wrong with her. No, they're both decisions.

Nicole Cramer: 00:12:07

Catharine O'Leary: And I also think that, you know, we talked a little bit about before we got on was that, you know, we especially find women entrepreneurs, in particular, get this closed off, I don't want to be salesy conversation going. And, you know, like, you were, you're doing this for a reason you're trying to have the impact, you're you want to have, you know, reach that legacy reach to that impact. So, it's a little bit of a How dare you not offer things right? Like, I mean, you're you're presupposing, you're making everyone's mind up for them, which is a little a little arrogant.

Nicole Cramer: 00:12:46

It really, it really is like, you're acting like, Oh, I just care about so much about other people, but I don't want to take their money and I don't want it well, you have something that could change their life, you have some piece of information or some experience where you've gathered some kind of knowledge or learning that somebody else wouldn't have to go through if you would be willing to share it. And when you can understand that it's not for everybody, right? Not everybody, not all 8 billion people on this planet need your stuff. But for you, to your point, Catharine for you to make a decision, just to take it off the plate, so that nobody gets access to it. That's making it about you and how you feel I feel uncomfortable. What about the people that are in pain and having challenges in that area, and they want you, they want to hear from you. And you know, I learned this from one of my business coaches, her name's Sarah, Dan, it's your fucking welcome. You're fucking welcome that I put this information together in a nice little bow package that you can buy it from me, your fucking welcome that I made this a product that you can purchase so that you don't have to have the same experience that I did over the course of all these years. And I packaged everything together that I learned and that I benefited from so that other people can also find their way to that support if they need it. And if they don't, it's not for them. But we've got to stop giving so much attention to the people who don't want to need our stuff. Because we're completely turning our back on the people who do. And when we get into that mindset of like, I don't know, I feel scared. I don't know if I should say anything. What are they going to think of me? Who you're giving your focus to in that moment? Is all the people who don't want your stuff? Yeah. And turning away from it is the people who do and I always say your focus is your faith. You have more faith in the fact that there's people that are gonna say stuff about you, which by the way, they're already saying stuff about you right now. You have no control over it. So you're so worried about people who don't need your stuff, don't want your stuff, and ultimately don't sound like they're supporters of you in general, in the name of the people who are like, I don't know what to do SOS. Is there somebody that can help me with this thing. I wish there was something out there that could address this so that I didn't have to struggle through it on my own.

Nicole Cramer: 00:14:53

Catharine O'Leary: So, so true, and I think that if you take that stance, and we talked about it briefly before we got On have, like, the business can be the buyer, like me, you know, in a sense, like I mean, there's a difference between marketing and sales, right marketing wants the wants, you know, the marketing department wants just to funnel as many people in as humanly possible sales needs to go through and be, you know, be the Are we good for each other conversation like are you know, like, let's get to the decision, let's help you make up your mind. entrepreneurs tend to be that same person. So, you know, marrying the two can get a little a little tricky, but if you come come at it from a, a, you're welcome. All right, which I love. You're, you're, you're fucking welcome. Like I spent 30 years putting this together, you don't have to spend 30 years to get to this point. That's great. But also, I'm not gonna work with everyone. Because it's not for everyone. Great. I mean, if we're talking about a $27, something that's different. But when you're talking about, you know, higher ticket things, where you're building those connections, building those relationships, working in somebody else's business with them to help them, then yeah, you want to make sure that it's a good fit on both sides.

Nicole Cramer: 00:16:16

High touch relationship based sales, absolutely need to use discernment and choosing their customers, because you might get, listen, we've all again, we said this, we've all worked with people about, you might be getting somebody else's leftovers that they didn't want to work with anymore, right? If you're not mindful of making sure that it fits for you as well. And just because they have a credit card, and they can pay you does not mean that it fits. So let's get right. There are some other qualifications that you should have as a business owner and say, here are the types of people that I work with. And by the way, you can convey this in your messaging and put it out on social media, you could talk about this kind of stuff, so that the people who are meant to work with you, again, this is the relatability thing. They hear that they're like, Oh, she's talking to me, because they hear you talking about them. And they're paying different attention when they hear it. So. So I think it's really important to know all those things, convey that in your messaging. But when you're in a conversation with somebody, it's you're not auditioning, you're not hoping they choose you. You're finding out if it's a good fit for both of you. Because if it's not, then it's not a good fit for anybody.

Nicole Cramer: 00:17:20

Catharine O'Leary: Exactly, exactly. And I think that that's where some of the integrity and authenticity can come in, to be able to walk away from the person that saying, Oh, no, take my credit card. You know, like, if you are, like super clear on your, your offer, and the people that you work with, it's a lot easier to walk away the people from the from the people that you know, are going to end up driving you mental, because you know, we've all we've all been there. I've fired clients before I fired clients in corporate and I fired clients in my own business before because like, after a while, you just realize there's not enough money in the world to make me want to work with this person anymore.

Nicole Cramer: 00:18:03

And you know what, here's the other way of looking at it. They also deserve somebody who is lit up excited about working with them. Absolutely. Right. It's not just about oh, this client's driving me nuts. Well, you know what, they might not be a bad person or a wrong person. It's just not the right it doesn't mesh, right with the two of you. But for you to keep them like as a client, because you're like, Well, I don't know where they can pay me. You said it, Catharine, you're out of integrity. And they deserve somebody who wakes up every morning, excited to serve them and work with them in whatever capacity that they're doing business together. And if that's not you, then you owe it to them to have that conversation and breakup.

Nicole Cramer: 00:18:44

Catharine O'Leary: Yeah, I think I think that goes with, you know, attract the best and release the rest because there's somebody else's best, right? So just, you know, like, send each of you on your ways, and be able to fill your time with those people that you know, that do mesh with you. And then they can find their person too. So I think that's great. Nicole, thank you so much for coming in and chatting with us. I think you do have a free gift for us today.

Nicole Cramer: 00:19:09

I do it is my discovery call template. And what I did years ago is I outlined what process I use on Discovery calls like how I kind of flow through. And it went really, really well with so many people because what they found is scripts are hard to use because the other person doesn't know their lines. But if you have an outline for how to create a successful outcome of your conversation, then you can authenticate it, you can take that outline and make it you and customize it to you. So that's what I'd love to offer everybody.

Nicole Cramer: 00:19:40

Catharine O'Leary: Awesome. And that will be in the show notes for everyone to get that framework. Thank you so much Nicole for for being on with us today. Final kind of words, sentiment for our audience today.

Nicole Cramer: 00:19:50

Sales is relational. It's not transactional. So as long as you're still seeing it as something that involves money, you're still not seeing it in the way that it truly is. Selling is serving and if you understand that the decision is made way before the money ever exchanges hands so just know that it's really found in the relationship. Love

Nicole Cramer: 00:20:09

Catharine O'Leary: that. Love that everyone thank you for listening yet again and for me I just want to remind you to ask a lot of questions and keep those conversations going. Thanks all